tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post2292912171434513126..comments2024-01-20T05:01:49.819-07:00Comments on Agora: DUTYLysishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-70020179746707149512009-11-19T08:30:46.671-07:002009-11-19T08:30:46.671-07:00I think that our president fits this role perfectl...I think that our president fits this role perfectlyTwonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01235338241902783057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-68228951000606378082009-10-22T14:52:52.968-06:002009-10-22T14:52:52.968-06:00for my views on this warfor my views on this warTwonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14454143619814677059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-79957552113811655522009-10-22T14:52:17.325-06:002009-10-22T14:52:17.325-06:00goldengatesoftruth.blogspot.comgoldengatesoftruth.blogspot.comTwonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14454143619814677059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-61346992468928004692007-04-05T13:03:00.000-06:002007-04-05T13:03:00.000-06:00Who's laughing? Just the new Giants...the power of...Who's laughing? Just the new Giants...the power of Islam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-88649988668892593652007-04-05T08:38:00.000-06:002007-04-05T08:38:00.000-06:00This morning it has become evident that not only w...This morning it has become evident that not only was Pelosi’s kowtow to Damascus unpatriotic it was incompetent. Pelosi misrepresented not only the American people but the government of Israel. The Democrats have now sent their clown show on the road. Who’s laughing?Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-69968161311160835172007-04-04T22:11:00.000-06:002007-04-04T22:11:00.000-06:00Ganesh:I am also grateful to Anonymous for getting...Ganesh:<BR/><BR/>I am also grateful to Anonymous for getting you onto our thread. <BR/><BR/>Word games are the “only” resort of the relativists. In the end they can mean what ever they want them to. However, I do not believe that most Muslims believe that jihad means “the struggle” to do good, any more than the Word Crusade means that to most Christians. Pretending that Muslims are stupid and don’t understand their leaders or ours is an interesting trick of the Relativists. Both these words have been used to invoke WAR for millennia. When Osama declared his struggle against the U.S. it was meant to be a fight to the death. Now that he is dead his minions carry on the Holy War.<BR/><BR/>The word games are the same with the War on Terror. Please refer to past posts by the Flaccid anonymous – he has tried to define that conflict away for months now. It is one of the leading liberal talking points; he is just following his instructions.<BR/><BR/>Mindmechanic;<BR/><BR/>Pelosi is appealing to her base – the Democrats and the terrorists. The Democrats support her with their votes the terrorists with their words. I am sure Hitler had wonderful things to say about Chamberlin, how the North Vietnamese loved Hanoi Jane. <BR/><BR/>Another tactic of the left, of Marx, of the Democrats, or Iran’s terror masters and now of terrorists in general is to say things are the way they want then to be. It is an old CX debate trick. Read enough cards, even if they are bogus and the judge might well start to believe the lie. It seems to have worked with Global Warming – Hamas and Ahmadinejad may as well give it a spin. <BR/><BR/>Just look, say it enough times and the holocaust never happened, 9/11 was Bush’s plot, there were no WMD, Saddam had no ties to Al Qaeda. These lies are the stock and trade of the media and the Democrats. Flood them with lies given the same credibility as truth and soon the masses are a mob – soon they are cutting off support to the troops and pretending they no longer exist, soon Lysander is sailing into the harbor and the fleet is in flames. Only the truth can save us.Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-39121439422585549502007-04-04T21:07:00.000-06:002007-04-04T21:07:00.000-06:00"Nancy Pelosi understands the area (Middle East) w..."Nancy Pelosi understands the area (Middle East) well, more than Bush and Dr. (Condoleeza) Rice," said Al-Batch, speaking to WND from Gaza. "If the Democrats want to make negotiations with Syria, Hamas, and Hezbollah, this means the Democratic Party understands well what happens in this area and I think Pelosi will succeed. ... I hope she wins the next elections."<BR/><BR/>Islamic Jihad has carried out scores of shootings and rocket attacks, and, together with the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group, has taken responsibility for every suicide bombing in Israel the past two years.<BR/><BR/>Ramadan Shallah, overall chief of Islamic Jihad, lives in Syria, as does Hamas chieftain Khaled Meshaal. Israel has accused the Syrian-based Hamas and Islamic Jihad leadership of ordering militants in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to carry out terror attacks.<BR/><BR/>Al-Batch expressed hope Pelosi and the Democratic Party will pressure Bush to create dialogue with Syria and Middle East "resistance movements" and prompt an American withdrawal from Iraq.<BR/><BR/>"Bush and Dr. Rice made so many mistakes in the Middle East. Just look at Palestinian clashes and Iraq. But I think some changes are happening for the Bush administration's foreign policy because of the hand of Nancy Pelosi. I think the Democratic Party can do things the best. ... Pelosi is going down a good road by this policy of dialogue," he said.<BR/><BR/>Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas' military wing in the Gaza Strip, said the willingness by some lawmakers to talk with Syria "is proof of the importance of the resistance against the U.S."<BR/><BR/>"The Americans know and understand they are losing in Iraq and the Middle East and that their only chance to survive is to reduce hostilities with Arab countries and with Islam. Islam is the new giant of the world."MindMechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233634574289918835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-75605885451389692932007-04-04T17:58:00.000-06:002007-04-04T17:58:00.000-06:00Forgot to mention, clarification is one thing, but...Forgot to mention, clarification is one thing, but some of this is taking things to far. Denying that the war on terror is truly a war is the kind of thing that will cause a repeat of the Athenian defeat in the Peloponessian War (thanks to Lysis for expanding upon my allegory) I previously alluded to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-35010180053338081452007-04-04T17:25:00.000-06:002007-04-04T17:25:00.000-06:00First off, many thanks to the kind anon who copied...First off, many thanks to the kind anon who copied my post from the previous thread and to Lysis for his response. <BR/><BR/>On the issue of the censorship of words such as ‘jihad’ and ‘war on terror’, they are correct in a few cases. A word is only a symbol and one can attach whatever meaning to it one wishes. However one must be certain that the meaning to you wish to give the symbol will be the one most will understand it to represent. As Cameron said, most Muslims interpret ‘jihad’ to be a positive thing while the American media and the government use it to refer to the terrorists. The word has a double-meaning and can be misinterpreted. <BR/><BR/>If the average Muslim were to hear them say that we are fighting against the jihad, according to the meaning Cameron gave us, they would think we fight against what they consider to be a positive force. Using words with double-meanings is never an effective way to make one understood. If exclusion of this word to describe the terrorists prevents misinterpretation or the terrorists from giving double meanings to them, I am all for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-37251495689896486422007-04-04T15:53:00.000-06:002007-04-04T15:53:00.000-06:00Anon..."There are competent adults in government, ...Anon...<BR/><BR/>"There are competent adults in government, some newly elected, that are willing to guide through the process of how to achieve competent results"<BR/><BR/>Since you like throwing out foul words for shock value let me give you one right up your...alley...in response...<BR/><BR/>bullshit<BR/><BR/>The democrats are devoid of ideas and they prove it every day. Social Security? Silence. Borders? Silence. Economy? Well...since we are historic employment and economic highs the silence is predictable. Renewable energy? Silence (except they do LOVE to bang the drum of global warming). But solutions? Silence. Fighting the war on terror? Silence. <BR/><BR/>Oh, they have lots of empty headed rhetoric that they spew on a regular basis. They love to hate. But when it comes to solutions to PROBLEMS? Nah...the democrats are as devoid of solutions and ideas as...well...you.MindMechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233634574289918835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-85166813211232525602007-04-04T14:54:00.000-06:002007-04-04T14:54:00.000-06:00BY THE WAY -- NEWS FLASH HISTORY REVIEW:Mahmoud A...BY THE WAY -- NEWS FLASH HISTORY REVIEW:<BR/><BR/>Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, puppet dictator of Iran, caved today and promised and said he would release the 15 hostages held in his terrorist state for over a week. Those of us familiar with history might remember Nikita Khrushchev’s desperate flailings as he attempted to maintain power and the smoke and mirrors prestige of the USSR. Like Mahmoud, Nikita grabbed hostages, first the People of Berlin then - with his “missiles” - the people of the United States. He too claimed victory and compassion in his successive collapses. He soon found himself in Siberia. <BR/><BR/>Let’s watch Ahmadinejad after this flop. I wonder where the Ayatollahs will be sending him?Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-43246715189894499432007-04-04T14:33:00.000-06:002007-04-04T14:33:00.000-06:00Cameron;On the use of the word jihad; perhaps ther...Cameron;<BR/><BR/>On the use of the word jihad; perhaps there is a better term – holocaust, or maybe a descriptive phrase -- “the subjugation and eventual extermination of all who refuse to accept the dictates of Muhammad”. It’s 1984 in the world of the Relativists. <BR/><BR/>Flaccid:<BR/><BR/>I believe Cheney would be in violation of the BYU honor code if he told the Democrats to “Go fuck themselves” during his speech at BYU, It would still be good advice; but then there is no need for Cheney to reiterate his call to the Dems, they have already complied; too bad they have dragged the rest of us into the process.<BR/><BR/>As for the 300 hundred at Thermopylae – You need to remember that Leonidas lost the battle; the Greeks did win the war when they supplied the troops, the equipment, and the fortitude needed to stand against tyranny. We can be grateful that America is led by those who are willing to do the same in the midst of such disgusting behavior by Democrats and their media cheering squads. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Mostly Just Listening;<BR/><BR/>You are right on about President’s work schedule. We can be thankful that we have a President who does his DUTY 24/7. As for the “do nothing congress” – they have done something – they have emboldened the enemies of American and the West, they have brought hope to all who “pray” for America’s fall.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Boy;<BR/><BR/>Great point on just how hard Clinton was “working” while he was in the office. I still wake up some nights to gasp a prayer of Thanksgiving that neither Clinton or Gore was President in American hour of need, in the midst of the Global War on Terror.<BR/> <BR/><BR/>Mindmechanic;<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this line of conversation – I am impressed that you scooped both Rush and Hannity on the Dems’ banning “War on Terror” and “Long War” from their vocabulary. Thanks for keeping up posted.Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-84281372314170922002007-04-04T11:13:00.000-06:002007-04-04T11:13:00.000-06:00by the way it seems to me to be a credit to Bush t...by the way it seems to me to be a credit to Bush that in his 3 out of every 5 days he has acomplished more for the world and this country than Bill Clinton who, even when he was in the oval office, was hardly "working."Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00311162496596190670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-47684550375718502142007-04-04T11:11:00.000-06:002007-04-04T11:11:00.000-06:00Ha!! "Bush is fighting a war that doesn't exist an...Ha!! "Bush is fighting a war that doesn't exist and can't be won, we should give up, and by the way we are not doing enough to win this impossible war so at the same time we are giving up we should be fighting harder." I sincerely hope that there are several anonymousus posting because this line of argument is completely self-contradictory.Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00311162496596190670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-2364166860019608062007-04-04T11:06:00.000-06:002007-04-04T11:06:00.000-06:00Being on vacation and not working aren't the same ...Being on vacation and not working aren't the same thing in the case of this President. I, frankly, don't believe even you really believe that Anonymous. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, I hope the newly elected you are looking to to instruct aren't the same congress that promised to accomplish more than any other in their first hundred days and then took repeated vacations including for a football game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-86955561817562129152007-04-04T10:43:00.000-06:002007-04-04T10:43:00.000-06:00As of today (April 4, 2007), President Bush has sp...As of today (April 4, 2007), President Bush has spent 406 days vacationing at his dude ranch in Crawford, Texas. He left yesterday to begin an Easter weekend vacation at his ranch. That is roughly 2 out of every five days that he has been in office. That number does not include the time that he has spent at the Presidential Retreat of Camp David. President Bush set a new benchmark years ago for being "the most vacationed President in U.S. history." He began the tradition by taking the longest vacation of any U.S. president in August of 2001 just before the 9/11 attacks. (He did allow that vacation to be interrupted by a briefing on immenent terrorist attacks but took no action opting instead to finish his month long holiday plans.)<BR/><BR/>If this truly is the greatest threat to America we have yet faced then President Bush should get off his laurels and start fighting it. Stop watching the world crumble around you Mr. Bush - as you do in Lysis' true to life illustration above - and do something EFFECTIVE about it. There are competent adults in government, some newly elected, that are willing to guide through the process of how to achieve competent results.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-24380815285643697412007-04-04T09:48:00.000-06:002007-04-04T09:48:00.000-06:00Will Cheney be in violation of the BYU honor code ...Will Cheney be in violation of the BYU honor code if he tells the Democrats once more to "Go fuck themselves" during the graduation commencement speech? <BR/><BR/>I agree with Lysis -- too many troops in Iraq. All we need is 300!<BR/><BR/>But, is that for BOTH Iraq and Iran, or another 300 for Iran?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-91679390258895075492007-04-04T09:19:00.000-06:002007-04-04T09:19:00.000-06:00I read the UK news articles about not using jihad ...I read the UK news articles about not using jihad etc that MindMechanic posted here. I have a couple of questions. First, to quote from one of the articles:<BR/><I><BR/>"The basic idea behind it is to avoid the use of improper words that would cause frustration among Muslims and increase the risk of radicalisation."<BR/><BR/>"Jihad means something for you and me; it means something else for a Muslim," EU officials at a Berlin conference on radicalisation said. "Jihad is a perfectly positive concept of trying to fight evil within yourself."<BR/></I><BR/>Words obviously have power to influence. Can it be that the terrorists have corrupted terms like jihad for their own ends, and news outlets' repetition of the corrupted meaning of these terms is harmful? If that is the case, then is it ok to use a more "eyes open" approach to the buzz words we use in relation to the terrorists?Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-33388491170321427202007-04-04T08:19:00.000-06:002007-04-04T08:19:00.000-06:00Mindmechanic:There is no political intent here – t...Mindmechanic:<BR/><BR/>There is no political intent here – this is call let’s pretend, make believe, or surrender.Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-84679041429650695812007-04-04T06:30:00.000-06:002007-04-04T06:30:00.000-06:00No more GWOT, House committee decreesBy Rick Maze ...No more GWOT, House committee decrees<BR/><BR/>By Rick Maze - Staff writer<BR/>Posted : Tuesday Apr 3, 2007 20:12:47 EDT<BR/><BR/>The House Armed Services Committee is banishing the global war on terror from the 2008 defense budget.<BR/><BR/>This is not because the war has been won, lost or even called off, but because the committee’s Democratic leadership doesn’t like the phrase.<BR/><BR/>A memo for the committee staff, circulated March 27, says the 2008 bill and its accompanying explanatory report that will set defense policy should be specific about military operations and “avoid using colloquialisms.”<BR/><BR/>The “global war on terror,” a phrase first used by President Bush shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S., should not be used, according to the memo. Also banned is the phrase the “long war,” which military officials began using last year as a way of acknowledging that military operations against terrorist states and organizations would not be wrapped up in a few years.<BR/><BR/>Committee staff members are told in the memo to use specific references to specific operations instead of the Bush administration’s catch phrases. The memo, written by Staff Director Erin Conaton, provides examples of acceptable phrases, such as “the war in Iraq,” the “war in Afghanistan, “operations in the Horn of Africa” or “ongoing military operations throughout the world.”<BR/><BR/>“There was no political intent in doing this,” said a Democratic aide who asked not to be identified. “We were just trying to avoid catch phrases.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Of COURSE there is political intent here..the democrats have no ANSWERS when it comes to fighting the war on terror so if they deny there is such a thing they can deny their failings.MindMechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233634574289918835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-84479592051812830342007-04-03T22:43:00.000-06:002007-04-03T22:43:00.000-06:00Anonymous, called Ganesh?I appreciate your insight...Anonymous, called Ganesh?<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your insightful comments. I will attempt a response one paragraph at a time.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you entirely on the Peloponnesian war as the type for this conflict. Unlike the earlier war with the Persians, in the War against Sparta the duration and difficulty of the struggle led the Athenians to become discouraged, as Pericles warned them – to them Patriotism was like a bonfire, easily kindled – it shoots up and then die down. He explained to them that true patriotism must be like the Olympic torch – eternal. The Spartans were told by the god at Delphi that they would succeed if they fought with all their might. They never did – and in the end they had victory.<BR/><BR/>You are also very observant as to Debating skills and styles here in the Agora. Believe me, most of us are eager to be corrected – when we error – feel free to correct away.<BR/><BR/>I truly believe President Bush is a victim of his own success. There are legions of examples of leaders who gain and maintain power by constant reference to imaginary boogie men – usually American – Bush on the other hand has driven all the monsters across the seas. Meanwhile his enemies at home tout the victories of the terrorists far away and bask in the safety Bush has given them. When he points to very real dangers of terrorism – he is called an alarmist. <BR/><BR/>You are exactly right – the people of America are not afraid. They remind me of spoiled children, who sleep each night in a house warmed by their father’s labor, only to rise in the morning and curse their parents. Immaturity is manifest in many Americans failure to recognize the dangers against which they are secured and their inability to recognize the gift of those who serve them. <BR/><BR/>Among the great attributes of President Bush is his willingness to serve in spite of the vitriol and deception spewed on him by the ignorant.<BR/><BR/>After the defeat at Syracuse, the few surviving Athenian soldiers who were taken prisoner were put down into the quarry pits out side of Syracuse. Each day the citizens of the city would come out to the edge of the pit and watch the Athenian soldiers die. When news of the defeat at last reached Athens, the citizens attacked the bearers of the news as if they were criminals. The shattering of their illusion filled them with anger – but it was to late, although it took nine more years – defeat was inevitable, because they wanted to pretend that saying all was well would make it so.Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-49782260590610647742007-04-03T18:03:00.000-06:002007-04-03T18:03:00.000-06:00Carried forward from the previous discussion... Ga...Carried forward from the previous discussion...<BR/><BR/> Ganesh said...<BR/><BR/> Lysis, your allegory to Hipias is a good one; however, I would suggest that the Peloponnesian War would be more appropriate for the situation we discuss; a democracy fighting an unpopular war. As you know, the Athenian democracy stopped supporting the army, ending in the Sicilian campaign and the fall of Athens. You know more about this than I so I will leave any necessary elaboration to the more knowledgeable.<BR/><BR/> Anonymous seems to have some skill in the great art of debating. He seems to understand that when one cannot make a cogent argument, personal attacks are the best way to persuade others. Did I catch him condemning Lysis for incorrect citations when him failed to as much as attempt to give credit to those who supplied him with his own arguments?<BR/><BR/> On the issue of the terror state, Truth to Power and Mind Mechanic give good arguments against it and I have but one more thought to add: as one of them state, we were flying three days after the attacks. I would like to suggest (please give any constructive criticism, I’d appreciate intelligent opinions on my thoughts) that the American public has gone the exact opposite way. We are becoming complacent. Airline security has relaxed since 9/11, (a few new regulations have been passed, however, it is taken less seriously than it was shortly after the attacks) and Americans no longer consider flying to be a danger. When I last flew, I never thought about the terrorists the security checks may have been preventing to board, only about how much of a pain the seemingly year-long lines to board my flight seemed to be.<BR/><BR/> When the war is condemned as unnecessary and pointless, this is not the sign of a people afraid; it is the sign of people who do not see the need for the war. They do not consider themselves in any danger. They seek appeasement because it is believed that the struggle is not worth our lives and that it is a distant concern. If the terrorists don’t follow through, who cares? We’re safe and snug at home. When Bush is condemned for his efforts to fight terrorism, he is condemned because they are seen as unnecessary (I myself do not agree with some of his actions). This is not fear. This is complacence. Fearful people would embrace the Patriot Act because they would believe that surrendering their freedoms would keep the terrorists from attacking them. This is why people would embrace Nazism or Stalinism or any other of the deadly isms. For example, communism only took control in states which were poor. In which the people were afraid for their lives and there was no economic stability. When one is afraid, the first instinct is to turn and run. Fear is not the reason one stands and fights as Bush is intent on doing.<BR/><BR/> This is the Peloponnesian War all over again. If there was fear, the reasons for withdrawal would more likely be the belief that if we failed to appease the ‘insurgents’ we would be struck again. The liberals seem to seek appeasement to end what they deem to be an unnecessary conflict (as well as power mongering, but that’s a whole other debate). When Cindy Sheehan held protests outside of Bush’s ranch, it was not for fear of her own wellbeing, as would be probable in a terror state; it was it was to protest what she saw to be the pointless and unnecessary death of her son. She couldn’t see that he was protecting her; she couldn’t see that his death meant anything. I do not suggest that each death in Iraq is not a tragedy however if America had truly become a terror state the needlessness of the death would not have been the tragedy protested. People would have feared our actions in Iraq would cause retaliation. Again, when one is first gripped by fear, the first instinct is never to stand and fight as we have been doing these past few years.<BR/><BR/> I apologize for my late entrance into the fray and I hope interest in this debate has not yet waned in wake of Lysis’ other recent posting.<BR/><BR/> 4:50 PMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-77443173737064304162007-04-03T15:48:00.000-06:002007-04-03T15:48:00.000-06:00Anonymous wisdom, how beautiful. Think of this as...Anonymous wisdom, how beautiful. Think of this as well, as the rescued party is berating their savior – they also show their hatred for all Samaritans by making friends with the terrorists and inviting them home where they can slit throats in private. People who can’t reason are indeed a danger to us all – except perhaps the terrorists that is.Lysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10669231502705943487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-2771933634719440552007-04-03T15:29:00.000-06:002007-04-03T15:29:00.000-06:00I know this is an overly simplistic analogy...Musl...I know this is an overly simplistic analogy...<BR/><BR/>Muslim terrorists announce their intention to come up from behind every non believer and slice their throats. (I almost said 'sneak'-but really...they arent sneaking are they?)<BR/><BR/>Then they begin doing it. And as one is coming from behind to slice the next persons throat, a samaritan leaps forward, knocks the intended victim aside, and stops the terrorist.<BR/><BR/>In response, the intended victim stands up and rails on about how big a bully the samaritan is for knocking him down, completely ignoring the fact that there is someone bent bound and determined to slice their throats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8382259.post-54709455727100710012007-04-03T15:11:00.000-06:002007-04-03T15:11:00.000-06:00http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/new...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445979&in_page_id=1770Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com